Misconception- The beach will not close

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Re: Misconception- The beach will not close

Post  Paula in on April 3rd 2008, 2:13 pm

Mr. Folb,
I applaude yours and everyone's efforts to keep the beaches open. Thank you. My family and I have been vacationing in Hatteras for 15 years. We absolutely love and respect the beaches. Driving on them is a great privilege and we enjoy surf fishing at the Hatteras Inlet. It saddens me that some of the "Natives" posting here are so resentful of us spending our vacations there. She makes us sound so disrespectful and awful and that couldn't be further from the truth. We always clean up after ourselves and sometimes others as well. Please keep up the great work and I hope and pray tomorrow the judge will rule in favor of keeping the beaches open for all of us.

Paula in PA

Paula in
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beach accessability

Post  Lovie He on April 3rd 2008, 10:52 am

Since there is little to no public parking in the villages of Hatteras Island, eliminating beach driving will greatly limit the accessability of our beaches.

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Access

Post  Frank Fo on April 2nd 2008, 11:32 pm

My Family is as native as any on this island that weren't actuallyl Hatterask Indians!! And yes in the original charter that formed Cape Hatteras National Recreational Seashore, we were given the RIGHT to continue making a living, recreating and using the beaches of CHNRS in a manner that was historical. It was not formed as a National Wildlife refuge yet we gave up 13 miles of it at Pea Island for a refuge. It's a fact that more shorebirds have been resting and nesting on uninhabitid islands in the sound and on Portsmouth Island and very few actually use our beaches. It's a fact that over the past 10+ years NPS Resource Mangers have destroyed acres and acres of bird habitat by leaving their bird clkosures up year around causing the mud flats to become grass covered dunes at all of the areas these same dingdongs want to close. There is no scientific proof that ORV's have done ANY damage to the birds. Next you'll want to ban Black back Gulls, ghost crabs, Raccoons and Foxes. While at the same time feeding the feral cat population that also loves a wild bird or 2 on it's menu.

Frank Folb Jr
Buxton NC
Board of Director OBPA
Proud Warrior for FREE & OPEN Access for all!!

Frank Fo
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swearing, ugly names, racial slurs, unsubstantiated threats, etc...

Post  anamosit on April 2nd 2008, 12:19 pm

yep ~ just like a town/civic meeting.

being a native of the island means little more than being born inbred & poor, it's not a banner i wave to imply superiority. if it makes you feel inferior, then i recommend you find a good therapist & work through it. perhaps a little religion might help you find some peace in your heart, as well.

you can call me as many ugly names/racial slurs as your intellect allows, and you may be right (about me).
but, you're dead wrong about your right to recreational destruction of the environment.

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anglermg

Post  Ghost Cr on April 2nd 2008, 10:25 am

anglermg, you wrote that you are saddened to say that a document entitled " WE THE PEOPLE" gives amosit the right to his/her point of view. Wow, you sure sound like a Nazi. Who is the elitist A$$? Take a look in the mirror.

Ghost Cr
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Also Anna mos

Post  Frank Fo on April 2nd 2008, 7:36 am

What you also don't seem to understand

"I reassert the fact that regulation of beach driving will not have much of an effect on the local economy. if a small number of hustlers decide to pack it in, then so be-it. that just leaves more precious resources for the rest of us."

Regulations may not have a huge affect, but full closures will and that's what these people are after. Also if they close these beaches it's not just the tourist who is kept off, it's you and I as well. If you wanna keep using our beaches, you had better get off your high "I'm a native" horse or your gonna need a boat!

Frank Folb Jr.

Frank Fo
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anamosit

Post  anglermg on April 2nd 2008, 4:25 am

Your an elitist A$$,

" i reassert the fact that regulation of beach driving will not have much of an effect on the local economy. if a small number of hustlers decide to pack it in, then so be-it. that just leaves more precious resources for the rest of us."

I am saddened to say that a document entitled " WE THE PEOPLE" gives you the right to your point of view.

As for "the rest of us" We don't share your self induldging point of view!

WE THE PEOPLE, Will hold these truths to be self evident.

anglermg
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Re: Misconception- The beach will not close

Post  obeachva on April 1st 2008, 1:18 pm

The Defenders of Wildlife and the Southern Environmental Law Center filed suit in Federal District Court against the United States of America to limit or ban access to many of the primary areas of the Cape Hatteras National Seashore, including Oregon Inlet, Cape Point, most of Ocracoke and others.

If our beaches are closed for BIRD nesting it will be closed to all public use............. Only birds are allowed in bird nesting areas........... Dont let our beaches be closed! Spread this info to everyone!

obeachva
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ACCESS

Post  Frank Fo on April 1st 2008, 12:31 pm

Well I hope you and your friends aren't just sitting there watching!!! I hope you are calling, emailing, and writing all your Govt officials and letting them know how you feel. Once you've done that start sending donations to the groups that have been, are and will continue to fight for access on our beaches. Who to donate to you ask.

OBPA- Outer Banks Preservation Assoc.
CHAC- Cape Hatteras Anglers club
NCBBA- North Carolina Beach Buggy Assoc.

These are the folks that have been on the front lines of this fight for the last 8+ years while many sat back and said oh this will never happen!!!!

Frank Folb Jr
Buxton NC

Frank Fo
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ORV

Post  guest on April 1st 2008, 10:18 am

This is very sad. We have been foing to Avon for 20 years and enjoy driving to the point to fish. I and many friends from Ohio are whatching this and I am sorry to say if you don't allow beach access we will look for a place that does.

guest
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I thought so!!

Post  Frank Fo on April 1st 2008, 8:16 am

Thanks rcaton3, yeah sometimes I need that bell to be rung!

Frank Folb Jr

Frank Fo
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Re: Misconception- The beach will not close

Post  guest on March 31st 2008, 11:05 pm

the ability to walk is not a luxury if you can't walk because your too fat youve got no one to blame other than yourself for eating too much, but come to my restaurant cuz ill feed the shit out of you for $

guest
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what it amen means

Post  rcaton3 on March 31st 2008, 7:15 pm

it means. i agree. ding ding

rcaton3
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Finally?? Amen??

Post  Frank Fo on March 31st 2008, 7:12 pm

What does that mean??

Frank Folb Jr

Frank Fo
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finally

Post  rcaton3 on March 31st 2008, 7:05 pm

amen

rcaton3
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Beach access

Post  Frank Fo on March 31st 2008, 6:00 pm

First off anna mos, you must be retired or independtly wealthy and your yearly income is not a concern.

These closures are complete closures until a management plan can be put into effect. ORV and Pedestrians all will be affected. "only 12%" of our beaches will be closed. The 12 % is the most important parts of our beaches. Oregon Inlet, Cape Point, Hatteras Inlet and both ends of Ocracoke. Sure you can go fish between Avon and Salvo, but good luck catching a 40" Red Drum this spring in that area. Your only chances at that big one is Cape Point, Hatteras and Ocracoke Inlets. Sorry they are closed. Oh and if they are open to pedestrians I hope you enjoy that walk!!

Folks This is about trying to remove humans from these islands. Their excuse is a total of 2 pairs of plovers on average on the whole island. And straigt from the horses mouth, these few birds will not make or break the survival of the plover. It is just an excuse to get rid of you and me.ORV access is a vityal part of our economy and our heritage her on HI. My Grandfather was the first to bring balloon tires to HI after WW2. No longer did he spend more time stuck than he did driving from village to village to deliver close to 300 babies. In turn my Father and my uncle learned to drive on our beaches, as did I and now my son is doing so. So not all "natives" feel as anna mos. Many of us have great friends that we have met do to beach access and the love of fishing and surfing on the beaches of Cape Hatteras National Recreational seashore.

Frank Folb Jr

Frank Fo
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Comments on Injunction

Post  EmilyG on March 31st 2008, 5:31 pm

My family owned houses on the Outer Banks from 1980-2002 and we made the drive from Richmond to our second homes at least 2 weekends a month, sometimes every weekend. The only time we didn't was when our houses would be rented during the summer months. When we first began going down there, driving on the beach was the only way to get around in some areas (we were north in Corolla). In the 28 years since, I can count on one hand how many reckless drivers I've seen. When I use the term "reckless driver" I'm including people speeding, leaving trash, driving on dunes, driving in restricted areas, driving on beaches closed for that part of the season (i.e. summer tourism months), etc. The vast majority--by a landslide--are responsible drivers who want to take care of the beaches on the Outer Banks, especially on Hatteras and other areas south of the Bonner Bridge where the area is still largely undeveloped as opposed to Nags Head and north.

What people who have never been to the area don't understand is that the people who drive on those beaches take care of those beaches. Hatteras and the surrounding villages are not like typical tourist beach traps like Myrtle Beach, Virginia Beach, Hilton Head, etc. To get to these beaches, much like Corolla used to be, one must drive on the beach via dedicated access ramps. There simply isn't land on which to build public parking areas and the like. To those who support the park-and-walk ideas, where are these drivers going to park? It would be contradictory to build public parking areas thereby disturbing wildlife in order to protect wildlife. It's also simply not an option in some areas. Even though our second house was only 100 yards to the ocean with 980 of those yards being on paved ground, my grandmother wouldn't have been able to see the beach if we were unable to drive her there. The people who drive on this beach recognize that privilege and will do most anything to ensure that they are able to continue driving on the beach--including conserving and protecting the beach. The vast majority of people driving on the beach have been doing so for years and they fully understand that destroying the beach means they will no longer be able to drive on the beach. We also understand that the diverse and thriving wildlife contributes to making the Outer Banks what it is. One must also recognize that these birds often indicate where the fishing is one a particular day. Why would fishermen destroy the beaches on which they drive and kill the natural indicator of having a successful day in his or her sport? It just doesn't make sense.

When we bought our first property on the Outer Banks, one could drive in the off-season most of the length of the Banks. Through the decades, bits and pieces have been restricted to protect wildlife and the growing tourist population. In these areas, wildlife populations have grown and remained protected. Why then, would groups suddenly move to restrict entire portions of the beaches when there are proven methods of protection that do not resort to such measures? Bear in mind that these areas to be restricted to ORV will see no foot traffic b/c they're not easily--even remotely easily--accessible by park-and-walk. Anyone who argues to the contrary has simply never been to the area (thereby, the probably unwittingly pronounce the town name of Corolla like the Toyota vehicle like so many other outisiders).

It essentially boils down to this: The people who drive his or her ORV on the beach everyday are the same individuals who take care of those beaches and the environment surrounding it. They do it because they love the area and would like to see it largely unchanged. This holds especially true in the southern portions of Dare County as they've seen the exponential growth of northern Dare and all of coastal Currituck. These people also comprise the majority of ORV users on the beaches, not the people who take advantage and drive recklessly. The National Audobon Socity and Defenders of Wildlife would have you believe that the typical ORV user, the people who want to preserve the beach and its wildlife, are the minority and that is simply not true. They are often the first level of law enforcement, contacting the authorities when another driver breaks the laws of littering, speeding, driving in restricted areas, driving during restricted seasons, etc. The people who truly want to preserve the beach are in danger of being run-off because people who do not understand the area think they're running over birds--something ridiculously untrue. Who's going to clean up the litter that ends up there when the currents deposit it, thus endangering these very same birds, when people are no longer able to easily access the beach? Are National Audobon Socity and Defenders of Wildlife members going to be walking the miles it takes to get there and walking up and down the beach for miles carrying bags of litter? Hopefully some environmental advisors have educated these people on the off-shore currents and frequent flooding that deposit litter from up and down the coast to these exact areas.

Unfortunately, it's more important to designate a place for birds to nest instead of letting them find their own place while the interruption of human lives is completely okay. The economy of the entire Outer Banks will suffer if this lawsuit succeeds. The best fishing areas on the East Coast will become inaccessible. What brings people during the off-season will no longer be acceptable. Winters can be harsh on the Outer Banks and people will not be walking 3 miles with tons of fishing gear in freezing temperatures, not when they could drive there before. Restaurants will have to close, tackle shops will have to close, trinket stores, family businesses, souvenier shops, etc. will have to shut down. We really should give the animals down there more credit as they will find a place to live safely. Animals learn to adapt. It's a lot less trouble for a bird to decide to nest elsewhere should they feel endangered than it is for humans to pack up entire families and move to another locality when it becomes financially impossible for them to remain in an economically decimated area.

Bear in mind also that those in favor of continuing public beach driving access are more than willing to compromise. They have seen the restricted areas be successful in encouraging wildlife growth and have no problems with a few more. The jump from proposing restricted areas to completely limiting access to ORV is perplexing and raises many questions. It also bears questioning why the other side is so adamantly opposed to compromising to find an alternate solution. We are seeing only one all-or-nothing side here and it is not those who have been driving the beach for decades; the people who you would expect to be change-avoidant and set in their ways. You're seeing from a group of people who may have never been to these areas and are more concerned with the nesting areas of birds than the livelihood of an entire population spanning at least two counties. One of these sides wants to compromise. One does not. One already holds themselves directly responsible for the vitality of the area and the preservation of these very same beaches. One holds a miscommunicated and hazy view of what really happens in this area. Do not think that if this lawsuit happens, eventually driving on the beach anywhere on the Outer Banks will not someday be completely prohibited. Think of what that will do to property owners in Corova.

EmilyG
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Re: Misconception- The beach will not close

Post  anamosit on March 31st 2008, 5:21 pm

in 1962, my mother had 5 children (ages newborn to 7) ~ and walked four of us to the beach every day ~ and carried me in her arms. my oldest brother & sister carried our towels, sodas & suntan lotion. it was approx .5 miles across flaming hot asphalt & sand ~ God forbid, you blew out your flip-flops. i learned to walk, walking to the beach, i don't even remember learning to swim, i was so young. so, if you're kids are too spoiled to make the trek, then leave their fat-lazy asses at home to play violent video games & chat w/ pedophiles on the internet.

visitors to the area have no more right manipulating environmental legislation than natives (like myself) do. the earth doesn't belong to any of us, we're just temporary consumers of this planet. those of you who think it's your unequivocal right to destroy the ground beneath your feet in the name of recreation, are fools. i feel sorry for your children ~ it's not all about "me," humanity depends on "we."

the vitriolic responses on this forum remind me of the civic/municipal meetings in hatteras village; it's a virtual snakepit of vile behavior, ignorance, hysteria & back-stabbing. that's probably why no one has been able to do anything re: damage control to the local environment ~ no one can agree on anything... except disagreement. if it weren't for the occassional lunatic throwing "abortion rights" into the environmental meddle, we'd have nothing to laugh about.

i reassert the fact that regulation of beach driving will not have much of an effect on the local economy. if a small number of hustlers decide to pack it in, then so be-it. that just leaves more precious resources for the rest of us.

the expanded tourist season more accurately can be attributed to the fact that population of neighboring areas has grown exponentially over the past 40yrs, NOT suv beach access for the masses. most ppl will always want to visit NC's beautiful, clean beaches ~ as long as they're beautiful & clean. Otherwise, they'll just stay in va beach/norfolk/richmond/new jersey and go to their local filthypits (beaches).

anamosit
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a lot of people are missing the point

Post  n1ndfan on March 31st 2008, 4:20 pm

from the looks of it, people are fairly split on this issue. the point is that if people cant drive on to the beach than the houses on the sound side of the island will no longer get rented. all the people that say "just walk" obviously dont have kids. walk 3 kids under the age of 10, with all of their food and toys, across the island and onto the beach and tell me how easy it is. not to mention, that if people dont rent houses then the economy of the outerbanks ceases to exist. to all the people saying the locals dont want the tourists there anyway, have them post another comment in a year, after they haved lost their jobs and see how they feel on the issue.

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I WAS THERE THIS WEEKEND!!!!!!!

Post  SUSIE418 on March 31st 2008, 2:43 pm

I WAS FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO TAKE A RIDE ON THE BEACH THIS PAST WEEKEND AND LEARN OF THE BOGUS INJUNCTION CREATED BY THE ONLY BIRD WATCHERS IN THE NATION(HA) AND TO TALK WITH THE LOCALS AND WEEKEND RESIDENTS TO REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON. I THINK IF THE BIRD SOCIETY WOULD LOOK TO THE NORTH OF OUTERBANKS TO SEE THE MAJORITY OF THE BIRDS THEY ARE LOOKING FOR ARE THERE, THEY WOULD BACK OFF OF THE ISLAND AND LET US KEEP ENJOYING WHAT WE HAVE ENJOYED FOR YEARS AND YEARS!!!!! WE HAVE FAMILY FRIENDS WHO HAVE A PLACE IN BUXTON AND SEEMS TO ME THEY HAVE DONE MORE RESEARCH THAN ANY OF THE ORGANIZATIONS INVOLVED IN THIS SUIT!!! YA KNOW AS WELL AS I DO WHEN THE CLIMATE CHANGES-MIGRATION AREAS CHANGE. A FEW YEARS AGO THERE WERE ISSUES WITH THE BROWN PELICAN AND WHAT DID I SEE PLENTY OF THIS WEEKEND? YOU GOT IT!!!!! BLACK LOONS, OH YEAH THERE WAS ISSUES WITH THEM AS WELL RIGHT??? OH MY THEY WERE MORE THAN BOUNTIFUL THIS PAST WEEKEND!!!! WE DO AS BEACH GOERS HAVE TO TAKE THE BEST POSSIBLE CARE OF ALL OF OUR NATUAL NESTING GROUNDS AND I ASSURE YOU THE THE PEOPLE OF HATTERAS ISLAND AND THE OCRACOKE FAMILIES ARE TRUE NATURALIST TAKING CARE OF THEIR HOME LANDS. THERE DOES NEED TO BE A TIGHT REIGN ON THE FOLKS WHO DON'T OBEY THE BEACH RULES - BUT FOR THOSE OF US WHO DO OUR PART SHOULDN'T BE PUNISHED!!!!!!!!! I SPENT ALL DAY SATURDAY SHELLING ON WHAT MAY BE MY LAST RIDE ON THE BEACH, BUT ALONG WITH THAT I WAS PICKING UP TRASH. WHERE IT CAME FROM I CAN'T SAY, BUT IT'S NOT THERE ANYMORE! WHO WILL TAKE CARE OF THAT? NOT A SOUL THAT I SAW WAS ANYWHERE NEAR THE SUPOSSED NESTING GROUNDS BUT I GUESS IF I HAD TO WALK I WOULD TAKE THE SHORT CUT???? NO PROBABLY NOT AS I WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO WALK THAT FAR. SO WHERE DO WE GO NOW TO SEE GOD'S CREATIONS? OH THE ZOO, BUT THAT'S CRIMANAL TOO RIGHT?

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Re: to Wheat

Post  disguste on March 31st 2008, 12:17 am

I learned alot by reading your post, I smiled, and even laughed-the zoo part-not only applies to animals, but to the human race too Laughing
I can only think that I really like you, and everything that you had to say, I can relate to your mobility limits, as my husband who is confined to a wheelchair, being 100% disabled, cannot walk the beaches either. Thanks

disguste
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ORV comments

Post  saltydog on March 28th 2008, 6:42 pm

Mr. gkolp:
Regarding your point that CHNS vehicle access should be limited to residents only; I ask what part of "Public Land" don't you understand?

Mr. Closures:
All along the east coast vehicle ruts on the beaches have proven beneficial. According to Clifford A. Kaye, Research Geologist, U.S. Geological Survey in his report prepared for the U.S. National Park Service entitled "Erosion of Fire Island, N.Y." he states," Since the beach provides the dune sand, it is helpful to natural dune contruction to keep the surface of the beach berm in a state that will most readily permit the drift of sand by wind. In periods of dry weather the berm developes a friable curst about one-half to an inch thick from salt that has crystallized in the interstices of the sand. The crust prevents wind drift. It is easily broken however, by tracking with vehicles." He continues further, "To promote natural foredune formation, obstructive sand traps should be used in the natural dune line. Snow fences and beachgrass planting are effective. In addition, salt crusts on the berm should be broken, probably by tracking with vehicles."

saltydog

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Hatteras Beach Access

Post  Ezrider1 on March 28th 2008, 2:06 pm

Ive been going to the Avon Buxton and Hatteras area for twenty years, and fell in love with the area the first time I was there. Twice a year in the spring and fall, my family, friends and I have enjoyed the scenery and the people of Hatteras, which makes it a very special place. Although there has been numerous rental properties added to the area and the beach traffic has been heavier, the Hatteras area still remains the same magical place I enjoyed for the very first time 20 years ago. The 14 days a year I have spent in the Hatteras area I always began my day with a big breakfast, followed by a discussion where we would plan to fish for the day to catch the biggest fish. Then we would load up the fishing gear along with the kids gear and supplies for the day. Driving on the beach to your fishing spot is the only way to go and to enjoy the vast area of this region. The local people of the area have been some of the nicest people I had the opportunity to meet, and spend my vacation time with. The area is so relaxing and enjoyable and fun, I got married on the beach in Frisco two years ago, and spent my honeymoon with family and friends for the week. Closing the beach access points in this area would deter at least 100 people I know from spending there vacations in this magical and historic place and Im sure thousands of other people that have a similar type story such as mine to tell. I think the permanent populous should have a major deciding factor in this decision because I believe if this happens those good local people I met over years will suffer the most.

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beach access

Post  fishygir on March 28th 2008, 9:53 am

I live in Kill Devil Hills and I am a small business owner. My entire family works at the store. My 12 year old can run the store almost as good as any adult and my 6 year old loves to bag items and just look cute while "hanging out." With economic times as bad as they are, I do not see how we can make it with the loss of income that this will cause. We will lose everything. Our summer numbers may stay close, but in the spring and fall, the fishermen and their wives generally come down and spend thousands of dollars supporting our economy. Their contributions to our economy have turned Dare County and Hyde County (Ocracoke) into places that now have a year round income.
The injunction suit was filed on my 12 year olds birthday. She cried. She wrote emails to the groups involved. Only one responded. Jason Rylander, from the DOW responded to her. She emailed him again, asking for the science so that her class could study it and determine its validity. No response. She is hurt, angry, and frustrated. She feels betrayed by the very people she wanted to become like.
My 6 year old spends many nights now in our bed crying after nightmares. She has a recurring one about a tornado taking our house and us being homeless. Amazingly she remembers the tornado as being full of birds. She keeps asking me why a bird matters more than our family and the rest of the people who live here. They hear the comments from people who come into our small store. They have heard my end of the conversation when customers have called the store asking what is going on and wanting to know whether or not to cancell their reservations.
I have one final thought for all of you who oppose beach access. Are you willing to pay for a large majority of people in Dare and Hyde Counties to go on welfare? Are you willing to forgive our unpaid debts? Are you willing to absorb the loss of state revenue because of lost sales tax in these counties? How much of your paycheck are you willing to earmark for relief to these to counties? Are you willing to help us pay our mortgages so that we can not lose our homes? If not, then are you willing to come down here and tell our children why they and their families now do not have the right to live here anymore because we can no longer afford it?
Dare and Hyde Counties will have a disaster on their hands unlike any that has been caused by a hurricane. How much help are you willing to give?

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Hatteras Island

Post  Bill - L on March 27th 2008, 10:48 pm

As an occassional visitor to the Outer Banks, I was shocked to hear that the radical environmentalists are out to remove human influence from the beaches of the Outer Banks. While I do not condone wanton destruction of God's creation for, after all, He did make it for our enjoyment, if I saw anyone dumping gargage, oil, or other debris, on the beach, I would not hesitate to call the police on that person. The same if I saw anyone deliberately killing any of the wildlife, for no justifiable reason. There is a growing element in our society who condones the mass killing of human babies, through abortion, but yet feel that the animal and plant kingdoms are of a higher order. Please, let's get some sanity distributed to these folks.

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Re: Misconception- The beach will not close

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