walk your gear over , we do have a weight problem in this area of country

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NPS already limits access...

Post  ajtrogue2007 on April 7th 2008, 7:03 pm

...to many areas of these beaches. THAT'S ENOUGH! Stop trying to take away ORV access!

The Park Service is quite diligent about continually moving beach closures to protect new nesting areas. I'm always for dialogue and I support a final resolution to the reg. neg., but to assume that just because someone files a lawsuit means they must have proof is laughable. I've been in law enforcement for almost 20 years, and I've seen plenty of legal action (both civil and criminal) pursued that turned out to be absolutely without merit, but for the emotional meanderings of a collective but vocal few. It's time for our courts to start listening to the people who are actually living at ground zero and not just a bunch of people from California whose ONLY friends appear to be animals.

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I think we can all agree

Post  mac123 on April 7th 2008, 6:35 pm

buxtonbo, yes it is good to have a mature conversation about this. I've enjoyed "chatting" with you. Still I stand by my opinion that we are causing or greatly contributing to a decline and ultimate loss of species and that we need to change what we are doing. In your opinion you feel that humans have not caused this decline & that the groups have no concrete proof. I respect what you believe. I could be wrong in my confidence in the Audobon Society and Defenders of Wilderness and their work but for right now I believe in them. If they have no concrete proof then it's urgent they immediately conduct more studies & they shouldn't have filed the law suit. I can't imagine that they do not have proof since they have filed to sue. They are good organizations and they have been around (especially the Audobon Society) for a long time and they should be very savvy in their actions. From what I have read it sounds to me like they do have good evidence for their cause. In the meantime I think it would only be right to at least llimit some of access areas until they find out for sure.

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Agree

Post  FleetSox on April 7th 2008, 2:03 pm

We can all agree. you're right when you say that they havn't proven ORV's have caused the decline. they havn't even proven there was a decline. since the 1800's only 3or 4 sightings of plovers have been confirmed. this isn't about wildlife- it's about economics and politics.

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I think we can all agree

Post  buxtonbo on April 7th 2008, 1:33 pm

"Glad we are able to talk about this without ripping each others heads off
like some posts have done!" - I couldn't agree more!!

"large mansions line the oceanfront" - That's a fact! I remember what it used to look like when we'd drive into Buxton, and it's almost getting to the point where it's starting to look like a mini Nags Head ( no offense to anyone from Nags Head Very Happy ) Maybe not that drastic, but you know what I mean. It's just taken on a whole new look with all of the McMansions.

"we don't have a right to completely exterminate one of the creator's species because of our
desire to drive on the beach" - I can only speak for myself on that, but I'm willing to go out on a limb here. I don't think any single one of us (beach driving supporters) would ever want that to happen. It's not that at all. I think most of us feel that we've shared these beaches with the wildlife for decades and have respected their boundaries. The environmental groups haven't shown us any actual PROOF that ORV's have caused their decline. It seems that Mother Nature has had quite a bit more influence in that than humans. In the end, all I'm hoping for is some sort of compromise. And for the most part, I think whether you're a supporter of beach driving or not, that's all the majority of us are really asking for.

On a lighter note, I've very much enjoyed this intellegent, mature, and respectful conversation, which is why I find it so hilarious that we've had these talks under that original subject topic. Laughing

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re- I stand corrected

Post  Mac123 on April 7th 2008, 12:23 pm

boxtonbo, Thank you for your cordial response too. Glad we are able to talk about this without ripping each others heads off like some posts have done!
I know after I sent the post about the possibility of more piers I reconsidered what I had said because there really isn't much oceanfront land available for that. That is not a realistic possibility because large mansions line the oceanfront now so that window of opportunity has been lost. Although I rarely ride on the beach anymore I do agree that it's much more fun to drive on the beach and fish than go to a pier. I understand what you are saying. I am hoping that there will be a ruling where there is still some partial access but they monitor it very carefully in order to protect the animals from extinction. If there are areas where animals are nesting or need to nest we need to get the heck out of the way. Not meaning to be "preachy" but my opinion is we don't have a right to completely exterminate one of the creator's species because of our desire to drive on the beach. (I'm not saying that you would want to do that but there are some who would, believe me). Let's just hope for a good sense ruling that will somewhat satisfy both sides.

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I stand corrected ;o)

Post  buxtonbo on April 7th 2008, 11:28 am

I think what threw me in your last post mac123 was the suggestion of adding fishing piers. I think fishing piers are great in certain instances. But I'm just not too sure if the avid fishermen, that are accustomed to casting out from Cape Point for example, would prefer fishing from a pier. I can't see my husband traveling all the way to the Outer Banks to fish from a pier, we have those here where we live (Virginia Beach). It's the appeal of driving right up to the shore that has attracted our family to the OBX (for that past 30+ years) and I'm sure many others as well.

And I do respect your opinion, just as I do the majority of the people that have posted in this forum. I don't live there, but I do consider it my home away from home. There's not another place on earth that is closer to my heart than the Outer Banks, so I most definitely want what's best for the island itself and for the people that do live there. I've shed many tears over the destruction that's been caused over the years from hurricanes. The local residents have had to overcome so much as it is, and I just don't want this law suit to cause further damage to their livelihoods. I also realize that feelings are very mixed and heated with the local residents regarding this subject, and from visiting this forum, it's very clear that some are very much against it, but I am most definitely a supporter of beach driving. We're not there to destroy the beach, we're just there to enjoy it.

Thanks for your cordial response!

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re-question to mac123

Post  Mac123 on April 7th 2008, 10:29 am

boxtonbo, yes I have been to Hatteras Island many times. As a matter of fact I drew my first breath at the old Buxton medical center a long time ago. I grew up there on the Island and have returned at least six times a year ever since I moved away to persue a career. The place is dear to my heart and I hate seeing what has happened down there in the past 20 to 30 years. It used to be beautiful before there were SO MANY vehicles on the beach. The "right" has been abused, not by any one individual, but by all of us in our SHEER NUMBERS.

It would be unfortunate if the beaches became closed to everyone including pedestrialns but I don't believe it will happen. I think that threat is a bunch of hog wash and propaganda being pushed by local businessmen, politicians, and special interest groups such as the Dune Buggy Assotiation. It's scare tatic to get people riled up. Not to be disrespectful to you either, but from some of the other posts here it appears not everyone down there agrees with your point of view. Granted, it seems that the ones who do agree with you are, in fact, the vast majority. However, it's obvious that some locals do not agree with you on this beach driving issue.

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Screw Walking

Post  FleetSox on April 7th 2008, 10:18 am

Screw walking. They're planning to close the beach to pedestrians too. If you actually take more than two seconds to look at this stuff, you'll see. on Savehatteras.com, they show signs that say, no surfing, no windsurfing, no fishing, four wheel prohibited, and NO TRESSPASSING. that means you won't be able to go o the beach at all! so everyone stop saying, "Just get some exercise and walk!" beacause if this happens, the beachs will be completely inaccessible, and so instead, people will take summer vacation hiking in the mountains. then you'll get some real excercise. And anyone in the outer banks will lose everything. Trouble, if you live there, you're screwed.

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Question to mac123

Post  buxtonbo on April 6th 2008, 9:15 pm

Hello mac123,

I absolutely mean no disrespect when asking this question. It's truly just my own curiosity. Have you ever visited Hatteras or the Outer Banks in general?

Have a great day!

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Re: walk your gear over , we do have a weight problem in this area of country

Post  mac123 on April 6th 2008, 9:04 pm

I'm hoping that the feds will create more parking turnouts for people to park their cars. They did that when so many people started going to the haulover, aka, Canadian hole. Why not now if beach driving is limited? That would not be so bad. Maybe I'm being naive here, but what's wrong with more fishing piers? Sounds like excellent oppuntunity for some business persons. It seems to me there are many ways to work around this.

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Walk your gear over DUH

Post  jimh2o on April 6th 2008, 8:17 pm

If the plaintiffs win their "end run" on the negotation process even walking to these areas will be illegal.
You are not allowed to walk on the dunes any more than drive on them.
There is no parking close to the ocean in most areas or boardwalks either.
J.B.
Baltimore Md

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Re: walk your gear over , we do have a weight problem in this area of country

Post  realist on April 6th 2008, 3:30 pm

Your solution of "walking your gear over" oversimplifies a situation you clearly don't understand. It's not about laziness; it's about the unfortuante arrogance of a group of people who think they have a right to determine how generations of people can utilize a beach that has been their lifeline.

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Get em Sherry!!

Post  Frank Folb Jr on April 6th 2008, 12:14 pm

But from the name the post and the "smiley" you can tell this is a lout who really does not care!!

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Walk over???

Post  sherrymskt on April 6th 2008, 11:43 am

Thats a little loose to say dont ya think? how about the folks that have a right to be on the beach that are disabled? Come on now why be negative. thats the problem here. people get negative instead of pulling together. sure u have a opinion as i do but this is a touchy situation to many and darn it i might not be a "local" but i am not far up the road in E.C. and i long to be at that beach always. so i suggest to those neg "locals" u might want to get busy before ya loose ur beaches. i have darn it!!!

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walk your gear over , we do have a weight problem in this area of country

Post  trouble on April 5th 2008, 12:44 am

Twisted Evil

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Re: walk your gear over , we do have a weight problem in this area of country

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